Comments on: EXT JS and The Nightmare of (Open Source) License http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/ Techniques Behind Modern Web Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:57:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: andy http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-481 andy Sun, 25 May 2008 18:26:23 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-481 I was using ext for one of my projects and was updating some stuff when I came across the ext licensing brouhaha all over the internet. I must say the licensing terms appeared sneaky from the beginning when I started using the library, but since what I wanted to use it for appeared to be LGPL licensed, I decided to go along with it. One of the major reasons I decided to use it was that ext appeared to do some pretty amazing stuff and with a really nice interface. BIG MISTAKE. The library was horrendously hard to learn and to use and debug, not in the least because: a) For a lot of the stuff in the API (which appeared to be well documented but was really not because a lot of it was just repitition of not very helpful comments) there was no contextutal information which can quickly tell a developer how to use the api (to get an idea regarding what I’m talking about, see jQuery API). Even YUI docs are better than ext. b) Second, but more importantly, noobs were treated like crap in the forums. Anyways I went along since the benifits seemed to outweigh all that. With the benifit of hindsight, it is now clear why it was not in the best interests of the Ext team that the developers learn to use the library easily and on their own - or how else would they make support money? Also, lacking the budget for as big a testing/development team as the open source comuunity, it was in the ext owner’s best interests to keep the real nature of their motives hidden until they had a commercially viable product ready. This licensing fiasco is really the last straw. I really don't have a problem with paying, its the sneakiness on the part of ext people that annoys me. I don't care how many hours I spend porting over my code, but as of now, I have thrown out the ext-js library from my project. I was using ext for one of my projects and was updating some stuff when I came across the ext licensing brouhaha all over the internet. I must say the licensing terms appeared sneaky from the beginning when I started using the library, but since what I wanted to use it for appeared to be LGPL licensed, I decided to go along with it. One of the major reasons I decided to use it was that ext appeared to do some pretty amazing stuff and with a really nice interface. BIG MISTAKE. The library was horrendously hard to learn and to use and debug, not in the least because:
a) For a lot of the stuff in the API (which appeared to be well documented but was really not because a lot of it was just repitition of not very helpful comments) there was no contextutal information which can quickly tell a developer how to use the api (to get an idea regarding what I’m talking about, see jQuery API). Even YUI docs are better than ext.
b) Second, but more importantly, noobs were treated like crap in the forums.
Anyways I went along since the benifits seemed to outweigh all that. With the benifit of hindsight, it is now clear why it was not in the best interests of the Ext team that the developers learn to use the library easily and on their own - or how else would they make support money? Also, lacking the budget for as big a testing/development team as the open source comuunity, it was in the ext owner’s best interests to keep the real nature of their motives hidden until they had a commercially viable product ready.

This licensing fiasco is really the last straw. I really don’t have a problem with paying, its the sneakiness on the part of ext people that annoys me. I don’t care how many hours I spend porting over my code, but as of now, I have thrown out the ext-js library from my project.

]]> By: k http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-444 k Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:49:27 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-444 I thought GPL in general was dead for web-apps since accessing a software app over the internet is not considered as "distributing software." Otherwise Google and Yahoo and other such companies that are known to use lots of GPL code will be forced to release all their code! I thought GPL in general was dead for web-apps since accessing a software app over the internet is not considered as “distributing software.” Otherwise Google and Yahoo and other such companies that are known to use lots of GPL code will be forced to release all their code! ]]> By: Georgi http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-443 Georgi Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:07:52 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-443 The problem might not only be if you want everything for free (like in "free beer"), the problem is that it really gets complicated to include extjs into applications you want to distribute. you have to reconsider to use extjs - even if you buy the licenses - because there might be trouble with the GPL. Well, if you don't care, simply do it. But I respect OSS, I dont wnat to break the rules and yet I do not know if it's okay by only buying the licenses. As far as I know now, extjs or an other developer contributing to it is now allowed to incorporate other GPL goodies. I got a license and use the stuff, someone recognizes that and extjs is not valid for me any more... . extjs was LGPL licensed, so everybody was aware not to do so (though it could have happened), now it's a complete other part of the story. There are a lot of open questions now. Jack + developers are doing tremendous technical work and because of that I did never really understand his fears of forking . extjs = Jack plus his developers, everyone forking will never get it done the way (assumably the quality) he does. A pitty. The problem might not only be if you want everything for free (like in “free beer”), the problem is that it really gets complicated to include extjs into applications you want to distribute.

you have to reconsider to use extjs - even if you buy the licenses - because there might be trouble with the GPL. Well, if you don’t care, simply do it. But I respect OSS, I dont wnat to break the rules and yet I do not know if it’s okay by only buying the licenses.

As far as I know now, extjs or an other developer contributing to it is now allowed to incorporate other GPL goodies. I got a license and use the stuff, someone recognizes that and extjs is not valid for me any more… . extjs was LGPL licensed, so everybody was aware not to do so (though it could have happened), now it’s a complete other part of the story.

There are a lot of open questions now. Jack + developers are doing tremendous technical work and because of that I did never really understand his fears of forking . extjs = Jack plus his developers, everyone forking will never get it done the way (assumably the quality) he does. A pitty.

]]> By: fx http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-442 fx Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:00:18 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-442 well, u can pay and tell Jack u r so happy to pay more 4 licenses. well, u can pay and tell Jack u r so happy to pay more 4 licenses. ]]> By: sf http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-441 sf Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:26:39 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/04/28/ext-js-and-the-nightmare-of-open-source-license/#comment-441 What’s it matter as long as we don’t have to pay for anything! Everything must be free! Free, I say, free! If you ask me for a dime, I will not use your software! As I work for a huge corporation, I must use free software so the corporate leaders can buy bigger houses. I demand freedom to have everything for free. Why do we need software developers anyway? There’s already enough software out there! Let’s work to rid the world of software developers! Instead of the Open-Source Initiative (OSI) mantra, let’s have the Free From Software Developers Initiative (FFSDI) mantra. What’s it matter as long as we don’t have to pay for anything! Everything must be free! Free, I say, free!

If you ask me for a dime, I will not use your software! As I work for a huge corporation, I must use free software so the corporate leaders can buy bigger houses.

I demand freedom to have everything for free.

Why do we need software developers anyway? There’s already enough software out there! Let’s work to rid the world of software developers!

Instead of the Open-Source Initiative (OSI) mantra, let’s have the Free From Software Developers Initiative (FFSDI) mantra.

]]>