Comments on: Highlights of GWT and Volta http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/ Techniques Behind Modern Web Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:47:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Benefits of GWT in 61 Slides | Just Talk About Web http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-57 Benefits of GWT in 61 Slides | Just Talk About Web Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:04:50 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-57 [...] read another post of mine summarizing Didier’s thoughts on GWT basis vs. what of Microsoft Volta.) Popularity: unranked [?] Sphere: Related [...] [...] read another post of mine summarizing Didier’s thoughts on GWT basis vs. what of Microsoft Volta.) Popularity: unranked [?] Sphere: Related [...]

]]> By: zproxy http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-41 zproxy Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:30:44 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-41 While waiting for volta, head over to http://jsc.sf.net and try my implementation out :) While waiting for volta, head over to http://jsc.sf.net and try my implementation out :)

]]> By: Ray Cromwell http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-19 Ray Cromwell Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:48:17 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-19 GWT is also open source, and it would not take much to modify the GWT compiler to spit out Actionscript or JScript/Silverlight. I've already prototyped Flash/Silverlight generation myself. Volta may be a larger ambition, but I think tier-splitting is naive. Subjective web app performance is dominated by dataflow issues, which makes moving code between tiers with simple annotations or automatic heuristics for real world apps problematic at best. See my example here: http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit-Contributors/msg/41f72846751e724c Volta's current demo is bad on this front. 20+ seconds to start up and hundreds of HTTP requests for a simple ajax dictionary app. Volta's compiler has a long way to go to catch up to GWT's Javascript output although I'm sure given enough time, MS will catch up. I find the GWT vision for building high speed, responsive, fast-loading Web apps compelling and less blue-sky. Volta is predicated on solving a problem that I'm not sure is really a problem by opening up a can of worms that may do more harm to the developer. In most apps, it is clear that you want to run data intensive operations close to the tier that contains the data, rather than download a huge result and process it locally, and any 'hand split' design with custom coded tiers is going to scale alot better. In the worst case, you can achieve it with GWT also with some up front design work (see http://timepedia.blogspot.com/2007/12/cloud-computing-and-gwt.html), where my GWT charting software also runs as a Servlet, an Android app, an Applet, and more recently, as Flash application. GWT is also open source, and it would not take much to modify the GWT compiler to spit out Actionscript or JScript/Silverlight. I’ve already prototyped Flash/Silverlight generation myself.

Volta may be a larger ambition, but I think tier-splitting is naive. Subjective web app performance is dominated by dataflow issues, which makes moving code between tiers with simple annotations or automatic heuristics for real world apps problematic at best. See my example here: http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit-Contributors/msg/41f72846751e724c

Volta’s current demo is bad on this front. 20+ seconds to start up and hundreds of HTTP requests for a simple ajax dictionary app. Volta’s compiler has a long way to go to catch up to GWT’s Javascript output although I’m sure given enough time, MS will catch up.

I find the GWT vision for building high speed, responsive, fast-loading Web apps compelling and less blue-sky. Volta is predicated on solving a problem that I’m not sure is really a problem by opening up a can of worms that may do more harm to the developer. In most apps, it is clear that you want to run data intensive operations close to the tier that contains the data, rather than download a huge result and process it locally, and any ‘hand split’ design with custom coded tiers is going to scale alot better.

In the worst case, you can achieve it with GWT also with some up front design work (see http://timepedia.blogspot.com/2007/12/cloud-computing-and-gwt.html), where my GWT charting software also runs as a Servlet, an Android app, an Applet, and more recently, as Flash application.

]]> By: ruiyiz http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-18 ruiyiz Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:29:08 +0000 http://justtalkaboutweb.com/2008/01/22/highlights-of-gwt-and-volta/#comment-18 Two points: 1) Javascript is just one of target languages/platforms Volta can translate to. Silverlight has been mentioned as the potential target platform. 2) Deferring tier splitting is the bigger concern of Volta. To deal with presentation tier, abilities of compiling .net languages to Javascript/Silverlight/(any other presentation technology) is a must. To me, Volta has a much larger ambition than GWT. Two points:
1) Javascript is just one of target languages/platforms Volta can translate to. Silverlight has been mentioned as the potential target platform.
2) Deferring tier splitting is the bigger concern of Volta. To deal with presentation tier, abilities of compiling .net languages to Javascript/Silverlight/(any other presentation technology) is a must.

To me, Volta has a much larger ambition than GWT.

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